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Der MCACC Thread

Gestartet: 26 Sep 2011 07:12 - 2281 Antworten

Geschrieben: 20 Juni 2013 06:48

Crazy-Horse

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Die Schutzschaltung verhinderte einen Defekt, von daher alles gut, viel Spaß.

Jetzt kannst du wieder richtig aufdrehen ohne Panik zu schieben, dafür gibt es diese Schutzmechanismen.
Wichtiges zum Lautsprecherkauf!
Auch Schrott kann teuer sein.
Wer billig kauft, kauft zweimal.
Scheiß Aufstellung = scheiß Sound!
Geschrieben: 20 Juni 2013 07:47

jm2009

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Hallo Zusammen,

Wo ist die Einkess-Anleitung (Blog) von ENCOM geblieben ?
Hat die zufällig jemand von euch, auf seinem Computer gespeichert und könnt Sie mir zukommen lassen ? Wäre echt nett !

mfg


jm2009
Geschrieben: 20 Juni 2013 09:49

Patrick_Star

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Ist gelöscht worden von ihm.

Die englische Version gibt's noch im Google-Cache...

Zitat:
Pioneer MCACC Setupguide

The ultimate Masterpiece by ENCOM Bluray-disc.de
75958_b41ff52bb23f75af29f46e146eaa55e9.jpg

Preposition and Introduction
What is MCACC ? Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration System
MCACC is no wonder drug against light dependent and asymmetrical sounding
rooms. MCACC is a tool, with which one the weak spots frequency-sided of a room can
be visualised. It is also possible to throttle or boost each frequency individually, to get
a result that fits with the preferred sound condition in the current used room, or in
the new built homtheatre room. This Blog contains everything which is necessary
for an easy MCACC Setup. It is built on step by step.
Preparation of the room.

For all of you which are up to install acoustic absorber in the near future, i strictly
suggest you to complete the room remodeling first, to save time that could be
wasted for doing some stuff like calibration and modification a several times. For all
of those technical maniacs, which have unlimited time for doing some kind of
epic work, i suggest you to do one measurement in the clean room first without
any speakeradjustment. This is just for comparing the first measurement with the
measurement in the completed room. With this procedure you can see the
efficiency work of the installed acoustic absorber.

Measurement and optimization

This Blog describes in detail, how i got the best sounding result.
I have studied all the MCACC features an options plenty of hours / days.

My main target was focused on getting a warm and harmonic sound impression.
I have considered the result curve not permanent, cause the most perfect
curve do not guarantee the expected perfect sound. A full linearized system
will bring the sound true to original, but everybody has its own flavor. I prefer
a warm and harmonic sound. I have spent a lot of time to get the most
possible experience for using / playing with different time slots which are
responsible for the systemcalibration and the results after measurement.
The final result ( Sound ) with the correct time slot sound way more better
than the result done only with a straight systemlinearization. The only very
important point during this procedure is to take care about the preferred
frequency domain. Its a fact, that all the frequencies around the speech range
are very complexe. Thats why i have decided to set and calibrate the system
that way to get a clear and harmonic sounding around the speech range. The low
frequency ( Bass ) didnt cointain that much wave bands, than the speech array
does. If anybody wants to enhance or modify the bass range in case of
getting more bass, it isnt that difficult and can be easily done by manual.

Important - Basic condition !
Please remove Speakercover an all 5,7 a.s.o Speakers !!!

Comparative measurments has shown, that they dont have a constant porosity.
In many cases it is possible to get different results or faulty measurements.
Especially on Symmetrie Mode you cen get a plenty of Phase errors. So i recomend
you to remove all Speakercover on every speaker bevor starting the MCACC procedure.
The amount of faulty measurment, phase errors or other untypical phenomenons, has
been reduced to a non mentionable quantity, after removing all Speaker cover.
To successfully calibratate and run the basic measurement, it is very important to
know the corrrect dimension of the room and also to run a correct basic measurement.
The Speakerdistance is also a very ipmortant point an can only be successfully
determined without any errors. I also recommend you to place the Mic on a Tripod.
Placed on the back of the couch or other seating also occur faulty measurements.
To adjust the Tripod via water level device can be very helpful. The result of a
slope placed Tripod can be faulty measurement and wrong time slots, which occurs
a level offset. Please set the X Curve, Bass and Treble level to 0 db before starting with
your systemcalibration. It is very important to hear the changed or modified
sound stage without any sound manipulation. After changing several parameters on
the EQ you want to judge the " new " sound without any Mods via DSP Element.
Preparation before Measuring

Personal experiments has shown, that i is not enought to settel with one
--- savespot ---. There will be come one day, where you found a CD, DVD, BD,
or even a Vinyl where you wont be happy with your setup anymore. This ist the
point where you are gonna start to botch. You will copy your beloved --- Savespot ---,
manipulate the EQ and at the end of the day nobody knows what exactly has been
changed. The only thing that is for 100 % clear, is that your once perfect sound
doesn sound that way anymore.
Well, whats the big deal ???
The whole MCACC Setup takes from this point on round about 2 hours,
assumed that all the speakers are on their final spot placed.

This Procedure is split into 6 steps.

1.) Measuring the Room.
2.) Calibration of the System an creating 3 Savespots for all 3 possible
measuring method.( Symmetrie / All Chan. Adj. / Fornt Align.
3.) Analysis of the room and determine the right time slot.
4.) MCACC
5.) Linearizing and modding the sound stage.
6.) Tips and Tricks. This is for enhancing the sound for the personal flavor.
With this options you will quit the path of correct linearizing and accurate
MCACC Setup.

Chapter 1 - Room measurement and Speakersetup.

--- Savespot 1 --- usage.

1.) First of all run a full automatic MCACC on Symmetrie mode.
1.Advanced MCACC a. Full auto MCACC – Mode Symmetrie --- Savespot 1---
2.) Set preferred speaker to small and chose the right X Over for your system.
4.Basic Setup – a. manuel Speaker Settings – 2. Speaker Setup

Important: Not every type of speakers has to be run on small mode.
The precision of the speaker depends on the speakertype and
connected electronic, like Receivers, AMPS and Players. And please dont forget
your preferred flavor of sound. On my expample i run the Center and
Surround on small mode. Front left and right are still on large mode. Used X Over
is set to 50 Hz. The complete Frontstage is wired with Bi Amping Customcable.
For additional Subwoofer usage, i set ever speakers to small and raise
X Over up to 80 Hz.
3.) Please copy this stored --- Savespot 1--- to --- Savespot 2 & 3 ---

Chapter 2 - Systemcalibration and creation of needed Savespots.

4.) The next Step is to run the automatic EQ Calibration. Please set the
parameter to KEEP SPEAKER SETTINGS. With this setup you are able to
calibrate the System without changing the EQ.
1. Advanced MCACC - b. Automatic MCACC.
At the top where you can find the word ALL, you have to click once to the
right till you can read KEEP SPEAKER SETTINGS.

No we are ready to assign the 3 operating mode to the preferred -- Savespots --

Savespot 1 = Symmetrie
Savespot 2 = Chall Chan. Adj.
Savespot 3 = Front Align
Run measurement !!
Now the System is calibrated for all 3 operating modes depending of
the room characteristic.

Chapter 3 - Analysis and search for the right Time slot. Room specific !

5.) First switch to --- Savespot 1 --- Symmetrie and run a reverberant
measurement to get the real time developing of all frequencies in your room.
1. Adavnced MCACC - c. Manuel MCACC - 5. EQ Professional - a.
Reverbtime Measurement EQ set off

Important:
This procedure is necessary for a smooth precalibration of the internal EQ.
If you get interrupted or you have to quit, please consider on the next day the
first job is to regain the last postition of the Mic. To find the last position of the
Mic, just use the option of smooth adjustment, to get the correct distance. This
procedure is very annoying and takes in some circumstances much time.
Thats why i recommend you to do all Steps from 1 to 5 in one clear run.

6.) Please download your MCACC File to your computer.
Take a look at the reverbtime measurement ( After ). If there are some
frequencies which are way to far away from the average value, just change your
time slot and restart your process. This occur in most of cases, because the set
time slot is to long. Low frequencies and high frequencies have different
delay times and will be noticed by human ears with different level - audibility.
DBA Vs. DBC measurement.

Time slot quest - Probably the most annoying part.

To make the analysis of the downloaded file and curve easier for everybody,i will discribe it in a few words from where the problems came from.
The major point is, that you first start your AV Navigator an press at the
top right the AFTER Button, ´cause only the reverbetime display after
measurement is important for us now. If the resouloution of the Curves are to
high, you can toggle it 3 - 4 clicks down. Arrow to the left of Z Button. This
procedure will smooth the display a lil bit. ( Z Button ) If Z is set to max, it will
be very very difficult to get all frequencies on one level, cause there are several
facts, that occur different measurements. Faulty measurements, depending on
the tolerance of the device itself, ambient noise and so on. If you repeat
measurements 10 times on max Zoom, you will eventual get 10 different results.

Examples for differen Time slots

To long measurement time = All Frequencies will be booste enormous.
Especially high Frequencies, ´cause they dont need a long reverbtime.
If the Time slot is too long, they have alle the time to ge refleceted from
every acoustic contact surface. Also Bass can occur much acoustic buzz.
To short measurement time = Bass Frequenzies will be claibrated very flat,
cause they need more time to get reflectet, than mid. and high Frequenzies.
Also in some circumstances it is possible, that every Frequency is too flat,
depending on them room. Physical considered. So it is recommended to find a
time slot, that your first reverbtime measurment after setting the time slot
shows you a chart with no extremely wiped out Frequencies.
Why ? Cause with the time slot you can take influence at the EQ range. For
example if you have the wrong time slot in some cases it is necesarry to set 2 or
more Frequencies up to 8 or 10 Db +. This can provoke the Message OVER in the
EQ. Same für reducing the level of frequencies to the lowest level. The time slot

is a great option to eliminate unrequested acoustic waves.
  1. Set the Time slot

    7.) I´ve listed 3 different Time slots, which can be found and set in the
    Pro EQ Submenue - Advanced EQ

    60 - 80 ms. Shortest available Time slot.
    30 - 50 ms. Recommanded.
    10 - 20 ms. Shortest Time slot.

    The first Time slot is the longest and so all frequencies have very much time to
    get reflected. The result is a very bright sound stage, cause depending on the
    long Time slot, especially the mid.-and high frequencies will be adjusted to a
    very high level.

    7.1) Available " Run - and Measurement times "

    80 -160 ms. Default value. Only in FULL AUTO MCACC (will be done
    automatically. Cannot be selected manuel.

    60 - 80 ms.
    50 - 70 ms.
    40 - 60 ms.

    Important: 30 - 50 ms. Recommended value. This should be set by everybody
    who want to complete his work with perfection. It is also a great and helpfull
    way to get a clear first trend. A too long and too short time slot is useless.
    Maybe you have to repeat this step a few times. Eventually switch one step
    up or down.

    20 - 40 ms. ( My final choice )
    10 - 30 ms.
    0 - 20 ms.

    8.) This is probably the most complex part, ´cause lots auf calibration and
    reverbtime measurements has to be done. The best option is to place these
    values on --- Savespot 4, 5 and 6 --- The curves are not on focus for now.
    It is more importent which setup sound best. The best result during my
    whole experiment was to set the time slot at 20 - 40 ms. Mid.- and high -
    frequencies sounds perfect in my room but i also know, that i have to adjust
    the low frequenz later manually. For this step i recommend you to listen to
    several CDs. Just switch between the set time slots.

    Chapter 4 - Final Basic Measurement
    --- Savespot 1 --- usage !!!

    1.) Once again we start up with 1. Advanced MCACC - automatic MCACC.
    At the top we don´t switch anything. Now, that we want to do the final
    measurement, we need the option set to ALL !!
    2.) Check that the --- Savespots --- fits to the chosen measurement method.
    1. Symmetrie
    2. All Chan. Adj.
    3. Front Align.
    3.) Run measurement.
    4.) Now we have done all 3 measurement methods correct.

    Important: Please dont forget to set the right Speaker Setup. Small / Large.
    The biggest advantage of Small is, that the complete power of AMPS or
    Receivers can be used only for operate the mid.- and high frequency chassis.
    Low frequency require lots of power, that most of AMPS and Rceivers for
    permanent use dont have. ( Depending on the used Speakers ) On Small Mode
    with usage of one or two additional subwoofers you will gain a way better and
    clear, harmonic sound result. The advantage of Large is, that depending on the
    full usable EQ incl. 63 Hz, it is possible to set the system perfect on full range.
    It is recommende to use for this setup a very powerfull AMP or Receiver, better
    use seperat multi chanal power amplifier.

    Important: How successful the linearizing well be depends also from the room
    acoustic. Especially with Small setup it is very often that 63 Hz shows up with
    big Peaks on the result. This low frequenzy cant be changed on Small mode.
    It´s locked. In this case it´s recommended to try out some higher X Over in
    order to sent all the Bass - low frequenzy - to the subwoofer.

    Further information about Small - Vs. Large
    www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large
    Thanx to Patrick Star for the Link.

    Chapter 5 - Lineraisierung und finale Anpassung

    1.) First we copy --- Savespot 1 --- to --- Savespot 4 ---
    2.) Savespot 2 to 5
    3.) Savespot 3 to 6

    Now we have 3 Savespots to work with and 3 just for Backup.
    Don´t touch Savespot 1 - 3 except you have broken a Savespot from 4 - 6.
    In this case just copy the backupfile to the broken Savespot.

    If some of you want to do such epic work, just select Savespot 5 and start with
    the linearizing. All Chan. Adj will linearize every speaker without adding him a
    special acoutstic weight. This mode takes a lot of time to completet it perfect,
    but it is also the best option for difficult living rooms.

    If you want, that every speaker sound the same way, you should spend some
    time to Savespot 6. Front Align wont linearize the Main Speaker. FA will
    only linearize the optional speakers like Surrounds, Heights or Center,
    so that all used speaker sounds identic. This mode is perfect for Music !
    Don´t let get you confuse about the mazy curves of the non linearized Main
    speakers. Just give it a try and hear some Tracks.

    For one of you who just want to lineraize a lil bit without spending much time
    which is necessary on All Chan. Adj. they should spend some time on Symmetry
    mode. The only thing thats important is, that left and right always shold be
    trimmed the same way. The curves at the result are always built or calculated
    from the average values of left and right. It is only the center which should be
    linearized alone.

    Important: Don´t forget to do a reverbtime measurement after every correction
    on the internal EQ. Please set the EQ option to ON, cause we now
    want to measure the frequncy trend in our room. The more you work with
    MCACC, the easier and faster you handle it. Don´t trimm too much frequencies
    at the same time. Take one speaker and one frequency.

    Chapter 6 – Tips und Tricks
    Important: Now we will leave the technical correct path of calibration.
    This is just for those who just want to enhance the current sound stage their
    personal sound preference.

    Less Bass ?
    Just open the manual EQ and turn down the volume of the test tone.
    Select the chosen speaker and trimm the preferred frequency up.
    Bass = 63 Hz. 125 Hz. Please do not overact, cause in case of trimm
    all speakers it is possible to provoke a new standing wave problem that
    can occur buzz. Also you can select Audio Parameter, head for the Tone
    and trimm up the Bass control, but this will rais the 63Hz, 125 Hz, and
    250Hz at the same time for the exactly same value.

    Bright sound ?
    You can proceed the same way than before at the Bass section, but this time
    you need to select the higher frequencies for sure. If the sound is to high or
    annoying in some action sequencies you can reduce this problem very easy.
    Just open the manual MCACC Submenue X Curve. In the Guide you can find a
    special chart, but the most experience i gain depending on trying everything
    out and this is what i recommend you. Just lower the X Curve a few Db per
    octave and listen to the Musik, or Movie. My final choice is - 2 Db / octave.
    Sounds awesome.

    Congratulations. You´ve finally calibrated your Pioneer MCACC
    Receiver successful.
Geschrieben: 20 Juni 2013 18:51

jm2009

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Hallo Zusammen,

Habe Heute meine Heimkino Anlage per MCACC neu eingemessen da ich zwei Dipol Lautsprecher integriert habe.
Da ich damals die Anleitung aus dem Forum hier ausgedruckt hatte habe ich mich auch an diese gehaltem.
Nun zu meiner Frage:

Beim ersten Durchgang wurden alle Lautsprecher als "Large" erkannt und der "X-Over" auf 80Hz eingestellt.
Ich habe dann wie in der Anleitung beschrieben und auch schon vorher eingestellt gewesen ist, die Boxen manuell auf "Small" gestellt. Und dann weiter nach Anleitung verfahren !

Mach es jetzt aber einen Unterschied ob ich die Lautsprecher auf "Large" oder "Small" betreibe, wenn die Übernahmefrequenz (X-Over) so wie so auf 80Hz steht ? :rolleyes:

Wäre dankbar für Antworten.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

jm2009
Geschrieben: 20 Juni 2013 18:56

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Hi

für Lautsprecher die auf Large stehen wirkt die Trennfrequenz natürlich nicht
Geschrieben: 20 Juni 2013 18:58

Patrick_Star

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Stehen die Lautsprecher auf Large, erhalten sie das gesamte Frequenzspektrum der Tonspur. Der X-Over zieht nur bei Small - Lautsprechern.

Edit: Stefan war schneller. :)
Geschrieben: 20 Juni 2013 20:17

jm2009

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Danke für die Antworten !

Vollautomatisch hat es den X-Over eben auf 80Hz Eingemesssen und die Lautsprecher als Large erkannt und ich Betreibe mein System sowieso immer mit einem X-Over von 80Hz und mit der Einstellung Small für die Lautsprecher.
Dann gehen doch alle Frequenz ab 80Hz an den Subwoofer, ob die Lautsprecher nun auf Small oder Large stehen. Oder :rolleyes:
Geschrieben: 20 Juni 2013 20:22

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nein,

nur bei small eingestellten LS geht alles unterhalb der Trennfrequenz an den Sub

Die q700 sollten aber tiefer könne als 80Hz
Da hättest ja auch Kompakt-LS kaufen können wenn du die Stand eh beschneidest
Geschrieben: 21 Juni 2013 20:17

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Hallo Zusammen

Habe heute noch mal eine neu einmessung per MCACC gemacht und mich genau an die, hier im Forum veröffentlichte Anleitung gehalten.
Lautsprecher wureden alle als "Large" erkannt und als "X-Over" wurde 80Hz eingestellt.
Habe dies alles auf die Saveport 4 - 6 Kopiert.
Danach habe ich noch einmal eine Automatische Einmessung durchgeführt, allerdings mit der Änderung das die Lautsprecher Einstellungen diesmal bei behalten werden. Habe vorher alle Lautsprecher auf "Small" und den X-Over auf 80Hz eingestellt und diese Ergebnisse auf den Saveport's 1 - 3 gespeichert.

Gelten nun die von MCACC ermittelten EQ Werte mit der Lautsprecher Einstellung auf "Large" für die Saveport's 4 - 6 und die mit der Einstellung "Small" für die Saveport's 1 - 3 ? :(

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
jm2009
Geschrieben: 21 Juni 2013 21:40

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Es gilt jeweils die Lautsprechereinstellung bei der Einmessung, die du im jeweiligen Savepoint hinterlegt hast.

Also zB speicherst du auf Savepoint 1 die LS auf Large, misst nachher ein und behältst eben die LS-Settings, verbleiben die LS auf Large.

Zitat:
Gelten nun die von MCACC ermittelten EQ Werte mit der Lautsprecher Einstellung auf "Large" für die Saveport's 4 - 6 und die mit der Einstellung "Small" für die Saveport's 1 - 3 ? :(

So ist es :thumb:


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